So andela isn't what i thought


#22

Allah = GOD and what i said is God knows BEST :slight_smile:


#23

Can’t you guys have a discussion without God and Allah? :confused:


#24

Well, we love God so much that we have to invite him into every discussion :slight_smile:


#25

And somehow, that love for God escalated the argument and caused more off-topic dissent. Let’s not do this again please.


#26

Yes sir. Mr Xoluibi


#27

Well, those Boston investors did not put that amount of cash down for an “empowerment program”. I never saw it as one but asking people to pay XX amount in dollars won’t work especially in a country like Nigeria.

Are you going to sue them to court for violating the terms?

But like @yoowai said, its a privately owned firm and you are free to join or not - its a free world.


#28

I am glad this came back down to sanity/earth cos it was already on a rocket ship to hell. We as a people are already far behind the rest of the world tech-wise. The way to catch up with the rest of the world is not to devolve into name calling and screaming matches. We must succeed where the rest of the world has failed.

We can disagree without turning into barbarians. I love the way this was handled, and I am glad calmer heads prevailed. I am especially glad that both parties apologized of their own volition - this is something you will almost never see in other parts of the world.

Thanks to the folks who helped bring this back on point.

Now… back to the heated debate! I believe documents were about to start leaking :grin:


#29

The end will always justify the means.
I think Andela is fair enough. I haven’t applied but I know a simple folk will just want to learn and move on after a while since it is free to join. Thanks for the brief.

Many people don’t know what administrators/entrepreneurs go thru before creating such constraints.

My conclusion. Some made money because they want to make the world better, some made the world better in the cause of making cash. Whichever way, no one made the world better by looking, liking or disliking.
But whatever we do, POSTERITY is at stake.


#30

I have always been weary of this andela project. I found it ludicrous when the founder made statements that he could turn anyone into a developer in a short amount of time. cant recall the full statement.

Maybe I just dont understand what they are doing

I will keep watching as the story unravels


#31

learn html and css in one month and you’ll become a Front End Developer…

its that easy :grin:


#32

Y[quote=“yoowai, post:13, topic:4752”]
Andela is not a requirement for anyone to be successful, and they are not coercing anyone to join their program.
[/quote]

What xyz was trying to say is that most folks like me, you and xyz can smell danger from far and walk away. However, there are the vulnerable and desperate few that needs to be protected even though they have been failed by the state.

Just like the way you cant blame a 25 year old graduate that decides to go to Italy as sex slave locked into an unreasonable contract with a Madame, you can’t also blame a 25 year old that decides to sign dodgy contract with Andela. These two have something in common - they are both vulnerable and are victims of circumstances. Out of desperation, anyone can sign anything but it is left for people like you and me to cry “Wolf” when we see one.

The reason why most countries legislate against practices like this is because Andela believes their training is work $15K which is very subjective and the user can believe that training is worth just $500. Is there an independent Employment tribunal to fight the corner of the employee when he gets a job offer with TotalFinaElf and Andela refuses to give him his much needed reference because they believe he owes them $15K?

This is similar our initial 25 year old female graduate that gets to Italy and then discovers that she has to service 20 men a night and wants to opt out but Oga Madam says she owes her $70K and wont release her passport. However our dear friend is willing to pay back the $600 flight money and $125 visa fees.

Another point you also need to consider is that when Andela decides to layoff staff, will this employee be given 2 years notice or will Andela refund him $25K for wasting his time?

In the civilised world of Andela’s investors, by Law internal training is free as it is for the benefit of the company and if there is a cost attached (usually external trainings and certifications) to it, the employee has the right to opt out. It is because of these stringent employee protection laws that BPO customers goes to India, Philippines, Malaysia and countries that there are no systems in place to protect the employees. Now it looks like the ship is now sailing towards Nigeria.

To get this right, I have nothing against Andela or BPOs as a business but it is important that we cry Wolf when we see one. I even supported BPOs coming to Nigeria before Andela existed in the comments of this post when I even pointed out to Iyin on how InfoSys made StanbicIBTC fire a whole floor of Nigerian staff to be replaced by Indian BPO Zombies…

But what I don’t like is the way Andela is disguising exploitation as an advantage for Nigeria…


#33

Honestly @Tola, if you feel Andela is deficient in anyway, then that may be a motivator for you to build a better clone and compete with them. @Iaboyeji has built something that is enviable and deserves commendation instead of criticism. @xyz almost poisoned my mind about Andela with that post but glad enough, things have been clarified. I have a feeling that this growing ecosystem will do better if we criticize constructively or better still applaud one another’s achievement. We still have acres to conquer!


#34

Nice response you got here. I really don’t think Andela is cheating anyone here, its a take it or leave it contract. The monies to sustain the venture won’t come from the tree. There is a similar scheme that my alma mata operates by sending first class graduates abroad for further studies, while in return they spend the commit at least to the school.


#35

You mind explaining what you mean by dodgy contract? Does it the clause was not included in the contract, or you just didn’t read it before putting pen to paper


#36

Hi @Tola , your position is a tad extreme… there’s nothing exploitative about a KNOWN (upfront that is) lock in clause… Heck even the Nigerian Government uses it!!!

For example, a bosom friend of mine is going to Uni of Nottingham for his PhD later this year and is sponsored by the TETFUND. Guess what, he has to return to his current university (where he is a lecturer) to continue lecturing for SIX YEARS after the end of his program. Why? Because the government does not waste its training funds and expects him to bring back and impart same knowledge to others. (You can confirm from ANY lecturer in a Nigerian Uni the details of TEFUND sponsorship for PhDs)

I know of a lecturer at the UNICAL who took similar government scholarship and went to the Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management (Top 10)… Trust naija hustle, he secured a solid role with Kellogg (the company) post PhD… Unfortunately, the Head of his Department (Accounting at UNICAL) would have none of it and insisted that he return… getting the Ministry of Education to write the company a letter and trust oyinbos, they promptly withdrew the offer.

At this critical stage in Nigeria, we need MORE of Andela’s to build necessary skills en masse… There is nothing different between this and the apprenticeship model to which a lot of major Igbo entrepreneurs owe their start. Hell I would even pay for the exposure and the kind of experience you would have on your CV. (PS: I started my career at PwC and the pay was shite but the exposure was 100/100)

I would probably however agree with OO’s suggestion as to a slight tweak to the model; Since the skills are imparted and accrue over the training period Andela could instead make monthly deductions from employee pay over the 24-months on a reducing balance basis with higher amounts deducted earlier in the fellow’s career… If you exit before 24 months then nothing for you other than salaries earned (less training cost deductions), On you 24th month we give you a healthy lump sum bonus of $15,000… Ou qu’est que on dit en Francais? Bon anniversaire?


#37

Both the training and the funding bodies are independent of the University where your friend works. So the cost of training is verifiable and was not the condition of giving him the job. The University believed that he was the best person for the job, trained him internally for free, he worked hard, independently developed himself then qualified for the funding to go abroad.

Now lets look at it this way. During your friend’s interview, the University tells him to sign a contract that he owes them £100K as thats the cost of doing a PhD over 4 years at Nottingham University. But guess what, instead of sending him to the UK, he can do his PhD at our Abakaliki campus.

What will you advise him?

To take the job or independently look for the £100K and go to Nottingham University?


#38

Unfortunate to say this but Andela is has a very confused business model.

If they are into offshore software development and are fishing around in the waters for Nigerian talent, the free training should be part of the sunk employee costs in the same way most companies provide sign-on bonuses, relocation expenses, transport and training to talent that they hope will make them money. Sensible companies hedge themselves from losing out on sunk costs by investing in HR that screen very well who they bring on board.

But if they are in the business of training, then focus on being another NIIT or pluralsight or all the software training companies out there and charge for it.

But being a mix of both may be a stroke of genius for laboyeji or a sign of confusion and inexperience or the realities of an entrepreneur hustling (along with the name’s similarity with “mandela”) to get VC money from Omidyar and other earth-loving types who probably look at Africa as several programming lessons away from India-type BPO success.

For those comparing Andela to the Igbo/European apprenticeship system the jury is out on that. Apprenticeship systems dont teach readily available classroom lessons, they teach mastery whether it is the Igbo traders who impart their wisdom to underlings some of whom become Coscharis and Innoson and Ibeto or the Swiss watch makers from whom apprentices learn how to make the finest watches. Does Andela impart coding mastery or teach how to code? There is a difference.


#39

To be fair we actually have a lump sum bonus of $5,000 we give after the fourth year in the program but this is an interesting way to look at the same thing.


#40

Rumor has it that this same contract was presented to existing fellows in the program
which resulted in a serious revolt and backfired on the company. I heard that quite a number of
fellows resigned and the number continues to increase.


#41

I guess that’s a joke @Godmode because you and I know that’s not true. :)smile: