You alone cannot change users perception, but of cause, you can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples. Which is a success as far as this thread is concern.
I know there is strength in the differences between the Radar Admins and its Users. Still there should be comfort, where we overlap.
No need creating another thread.
We all have made some mistakes at the earliest stage of our lives and I bet our conscience put us back on track, and not some open shaming from OP’s of unsatisfactory family and friends of clients.
I’ve always seen Radar as a medium of learning and networking. But if the OP of the original SCAM thread requested you to close the thread, it does counts.
Else, I don’t know what to make of your decision.
Like I said in the original thread, posts like that do not belong on Radar. It sets a very bad precedent, what can we have next?
The last boss that didn’t fulfil my contract promise.
How my partners refused to meet up and we shut down our startup.
Freelancers come here and make a list of their oni-gbese’s (debtors)
Wait… wait, there’s another one, I dated someone and here’s what I have to say about him / her because he/she is a techie, hence it belongs on Radar.
I’m not in anyway justifying what the dude did or could have done, that is not even my concern, we’ve all had encounters with terrible people in this our so called ecosystem. Bringing such unnecessary review to Radar is just outright wrong and doesn’t fit what it should be.
In places like SO, such conversations will be closed down as “non-constructive”
Radar is a small community and can afford to help the cause of her affected.
Recommendations have been bestowed by posts and threads alike on radar, affecting programmers as well as businesses involved. In this case positively. Warnings should not be too far behind.
It isn’t unwelcoming, neither is it a slur whatsoever on Radar to assist in a resolution or ousting of a culprit.
The benefit of bringing up that thread was effective immediately, it was clear Dayo had left a trail of scams.
@logbon72 For you to rate the ‘sanctity’ of radar above assisting a fellow entrepreneur with any chance of getting back unrequited spend is by all means selfish. Put yourself in his shoes if you lost money to a scam and Radar held any chance of you having justice meted out would you not take it with both hands, thankfully?
Agreed your fears of this encouraging a certain kind of unpleasantness may be real. Disputes are a dime a dozen.
But it behoves the Admins of Radar, to address this with more tact, instead of playing aloof or acting arbitrarily.
Here: I’d have requested evidence from the OP of the other thread to properly prove the situation at hand with confirmations. Then I’d reach out on his behalf or properly arbitrate by getting people who can help involved. Most likely outside of radar.
Based on actions taken to effect, I can peaceful close the aforementioned thread with notes of what has been done or been done.
If OP isn’t able to provide enough incriminating evidence admin has every right to delete the thread and send OP on his way.
@logbon72 I really do not know you but am beginning to dislike you already. Just because you are in bed with the accused does not mean people can’t lay accusation against him.
@lordbanks i really do not know what you want people to feel already. Even if it is just stating that “Radar is not a dispute resolution or investigation platform prior to closing the thread would have suffice.”
People get angry; thats what makes us human; but like my able Frank Donga would always say, we are all professional; so we should treat ourselves as such.
No man is an island; and the first rule of business that i learnt is to treat the customer right “Even when they are angry”; Please @lordbanks treat us right because we really want to see radar grow.
Dude, I don’t give a hoot about you liking me. Saying, I’m “in bed with the accused” is a gross accusation on your part. If you followed the original thread, I had posted my resentment about the thread before even knowing that I knew the guy in question, and when I said personally, I meant I knew him in person, not that we’re close or anything, if not I’d have know his full name. There’s no point in any of my comments where I have defended his actions / inaction. But like I said, Radar is not a place for personal vendetta, at least my perception of it is not.
Radar is different things to all of us. The Radar I perceive is not a place where people come to rate other people or talk them down, whether in the guise of asking for assistance or any other means. If I gave a developer a job, I’d definitely know how to get in touch physically or at least have him recommended by someone I trust a lot. I can also put my self in the developer’s shoes and see a client posting stuff about me because we had a disagreement. The interesting thing about the Internet is, people don’t pay attention to details and only care about headline, especially when the source is deemed a genuine one.
If there were no websites or forums only tech companies or hubs and someone just got scammed by a programmer, you’re saying the victim’s next line of action is to run to the tech companies saying he got scammed by a programmer who does not work for any of the tech companies…
the least the victim can do is warn them of the scammer… The tech companies and tech hubs don’t have any obligation to assist because it does not concern them…
If the OP had used only the website the scammer owned then the thread would have been a review thread instead of a vendetta thread.
Over half the discussions on Radar would be closed as “non-constructive” on Stack Overflow while we are on that subject. Not that I have anything in favour or against the creation of the thread or it’s eventual closure - I just feel/felt an explanation was appropriate, rather than the aloof stance Bankole took on this thread. Sure, it’s not easy being a sole proprietor of a fast growing forum, and definitely not possible to please everyone but that’s not an excuse to be tactless.
Anyways, I think Bankole scored an ‘own’ goal with closing the thread and not providing an explanation initially. But in my opinion, he’s made amends, by going back to do so and provided detailed and good reasons. I hope the rest of the community accepts his apology and those aggrieved with his initial high handedness (like I was), can move on.
With that out of the way, I think there are some bigger issues at stake which are:
• Is Radar to be used in this manner where civil disputes are invariably brought to public domain with all sensitive details of affected people revealed? (That’s for TC to ponder)
• Does that suit the objectives or goals of Radar as a community to function in this manner? (That’s for TC to decide)
• Probably worth getting a lawyer to look at those terms and conditions for Radar again. You don’t want to be culpable because someone’s career was destroyed in a very flippant/questionable manner. (TC & participants in threads such as this to ponder)
It’s clear to me that this is a dangerous precedent. In this case, it might appear that there were collaborative evidence that there was an issue which is valid. However what happens when is not exactly clear eg a Dev who got a job advertised on Radar and didn’t deliver as expected? Should he/she now be shamed as ‘scam’ on Radar?
Looking after a community forum is a job for the brave. See Reddit, HN etc. My free advice to TC of what I will do in cases like this:
Ask OP to immediately contact aggrieved party once the post is up.
All participants on the thread can only release public available information i.e. Details that can be found on website. No home address/church/where your children school etc.
If the thread disintegrates for a misuse of #1 and #2 reasons. Or overly malicious tone of abuse or threatened violence I will close the thread. (This is subjective so it will be a call).
I will NEVER close a thread without explanation. (That’s a slap on everybody’s face).
Any OP can’t open a ‘complaint’ thread for 3 months. Radar is not the court and shouldn’t be used that way.
On #5 I will be firm, no one has a God- given right to use Radar as some sort of vendetta tool to get back at aggrieved parties. Don’t open the dam, because there will be a flood.
@logbon72 sorry bro, but you’re rambling; I asked a simply question, you are telling me you’re immune to being cheated. You’re obviously a better man than we all are. Carry on!
@lordbanks that is one poo of a clarification you just made on the closed thread. Forgive me but I personally am unimpressed. Far from it, actually piqued.
While you may think you were being thorough you simply ended up severely patronizing.
So, you didn’t request or collect confirmation from @drfemikuti regarding the accusations and you allowed the thread to stay up?
That I and a couple of other folks corroborated shouldn’t form the basis of evidence.
You rue the possibility that both the thread and its corroborators may well be on a smear campaign over an innocent and yet, you made no effort to contact OP or any corroborator for evidence.
Again as claimed, you closed the thread on account that there was nothing more to say, WTH. How was that determined, taking that literally half the thread on Radar should be closed 5 hrs after creation.
-#tryharder
@papaolabode this isn’t a case of I didn’t get quality work delivered, Dayo wont deliver that work and doesn’t have the refund. I have and am proof.
The least I’d have expected moderators here to do, in a bid not to encourage a scam thread series is to rethread the post into a search and find for a renegade programmer.
Like I said before moderators here have proved they lack tact. And with a job category here, Radar is a series of scandals waiting to happen.
I strongly disagree with your position @87_chuks. Why is the burden to prove the authenticity of your claims on Radar’s moderators?
Let’s take a step back and look at this case in question properly.
OP says he got scammed and asked for anyone who can provide details of the scammer.
He made a few assertions which can not be verified
A few people (like yourself) have actually dealt with the alleged scammer in the past.
The address details of scammer was provided to OP (point 1), which was his initial request.
TC closed the thread without explanation (which was bad on all counts but I don’t see how his subsequent explanation was 'patronising).
Now @87_chuks, what do you want TC to do in this case? Or in cases like his going forward? I know you’re aggrieved as you probably feel from 1st hand experience, that Dayo is guilty as charged. But is Radar some sort of quasi-court? I don’t get what you want to be done, to be honest. So pls elaborate.
@logbon72, first my apologies for saying you’re rambling, i see you didn’t take it well.
I don’t know who you think am trying to pull down, but buddy if i was still hunting Dayo for the loss, he’d have long left progamming as a profession by now.
I forgave Dayo for the self same trick he continues to pull on others, i feel responsible. I thought he’d have turn a new leaf.
@PapaOlabode A radar user posted something of grave concern, corroborated by other active users. That alone is of concern to radar.
Now, like i said in an earlier post
Point is if you’re going to leave that thread up, then do it right. Hence the burden to prove authenticity.
If you will close the thread, it shouldn’t be because there was nothing left to say according to you.
And i strongly second some expressed concern that this may lead to a slew of dissatisfied buyers coming here to open ‘scam’ threads.
Hence this; [quote=“87_chuks, post:34, topic:3282”]
The least I’d have expected moderators here to do, in a bid not to encourage a scam thread series is to rethread the post into a search and find for a renegade programmer.
[/quote]
The most important thing in communication is hearing what isn’t being said. The art of reading between the lines is a life long quest of the wise.
Like @lordbanks mentioned in his response regarding his reason for closing the thread, the discussion had already taken its course.
My primary concern was showing respect to the Radar Community and not creating more ripples by the initial proposed opening of another thread just to simply give a reason. We are now a step forward.
The OP had gotten enough info and even exchanged favorable DM’s with users willing to assist. The thread was not deleted but simply closed and would forever remain a reference point cause search will always find the post.
Vengeance, retaliation, retribution, revenge are deceitful brothers; vile, beguiling demons promising justifiable compensation to a pained soul for his losses. Yet in truth they craftily fester away all else of worth remaining. Let’s be careful on how we thread paths.
PUN Intended: Maybe we could create a special feature to track scammers via radar.techcabal.com/efcc or not. Bad, Bad Joke!
I disagree. It’s this a concern for Radar as a community or a concern for Radar moderators?
Why should Radar moderators carry out a search because of what an OP decides to post? The way I see it;
• Radar is not the first forum to have a ‘jobs’ section.
• So why should it be the first forum to have a ‘jobs’ section and a ‘search and find’ operation for ‘renegade programmers’?
Now of course I’m don’t speak on behalf of TC, but to me the burden to ‘prove authenticity’ is one which I will strongly refuse. If I allow everyone to come to the forum & post slanderous threads about people, and I need to now ascertain the ‘authenticity’ of said post, how do I even get anything else done?
This is the crux of your solution. In my opinion, that’s no solution as its probably unworkable and more importantly beyond the remit of any community moderator.
Ultimately this is not my problem to deal with, but if it was, I would happily reflect the T&C of the forum and communicate to everyone exactly what will happen in situations like this.
We should probably aim for that to be the case in the future. I think radar is degenerating into a sub par platform for intelligent conversation about technology. Primarily because they lack the tools and technology to actually curate the community. This is sad because it could be so much more.
PS: I personally think people like Tola and his approach to discourse are toxic for our ecosystem. No one is asking for praise but dealing with people in fight or flight mode in an intellectual square gets exhausting. Not everyone is one of his agberos. If he riots who does he think he is doing? He is doing himself.
