Is Paystack essentially a reseller of Flutterwave's excellent payment tech?

[kananga]

@ChikaUwazie

I know both founders so I have no dog in this fight. Please do not state relationships unless you yourself know the people personally.

Again just because they have this diagram doesn’t mean they power paystack. From my knowledge they have built their own technology outside of FW. The only reason why FW and Paystack were working together due to a special circumstance. This is the last time I am saying this as at this point I have to assume you are a troll.

At this point, you’re the one trolling me.

You asked questions, I provided simple answers accompanied by evidence. But you turn around and attack me? Hmmmm

I do not know the FlutterWave or Paystack people, so this puts me in the advantageous position to think critically and arrive at rational conclusions devoid of emotions and sentiments. You on the other hand “know both founders”, this necessarily means that you see every statement about them through an emotional (maybe even irrational) prism.

Fortunately for us, feelings and emotions cannot alter facts.

Just to be clear, I think PayStack are doing a great job as a PSP. And I really really love FlutterWave.

[Sherrytums]

@xolubi

I cannot say for certain when Flutterwave became a thing, but due to their deep relationship with Access Bank (more on this later), transactions we passed through our Access Bank integration went through Flutterwave, starting late May, 2016. I would love to go into the intricacies of this, but I reckon that isn’t why we are here. Over time, and for multiple reasons, this stopped being the case.

Simply put; Paystack is NOT for all intents and purposes using Flutterwave anymore.

[Ari_Biton]

Okay, where does moneywave come in?

[blacquay]

That’s some interesting service… The flw guys are on a mission to outdo themselves

[Uduak]

I am disappointed that between the Flutterwave Boss and the Paystack Tech Boss, this subject has not been approached from a technical perspective.

<Extract from braintree website> I choose braintree because I am sure a lot of us here respect braintree enough to respect their view.

There are really two types of merchant service providers: processors and resellers (resellers are known in the industry as Independent Sales Organizations (ISO’s) and/or Merchant Service Providers (MSP’s)).

1. Processors - Also known as Acquirers, processors are distinguished by their ability to actually process a transaction. To be a processor, the technical capability to receive transaction data and then communicate with the appropriate financial institutions to approve or decline transactions. Processors must also be able to settle completed transactions through financial institutions in order to deposit funds into the merchant’s bank account.

2. ISOs - ISOs resell the products or services of one or multiple processors. They can also develop their own or aggregate other value-added products and services. ISOs range from a little sketchy to best-in-class providers.

Processors versus ISOs In comparing the two, ISOs offer all of the products and services that processors do (because they are reselling) but processors can’t always offer the same products and services as ISOs. This is because ISOs can resell for multiple processors and can either develop their own technologies or aggregate solutions from other providers. ISOs have largely been the most successful creators of value-added services while attempts by processors have usually been pretty clunky. ISO’s also tend to be smaller, which usually (but not always) leads to better customer service.

So Paystack, are you a reseller or a processor?
Or you just want us to respect the part that you are reselling from multiple processors(MIGS/Interswitch etc)?
It is either you are a reseller or a processor/acquirer.

Personally, I think you should just brand yourself a Software services corporation.

[iaboyeji]

Dear All,

I just wanted to round out this very unfortunate conversation thread filled with innuendos, untruths and miscommunication on a few factual notes so that the record is set straight and the rumor mill doesn’t destroy our payments ecosystem and the thriving businesses built around it.

First of all Paystack is not a Flutterwave white label. Also, Flutterwave is not an Access Bank white label. As a payment firm we work with a lot of banks globally as clients, partners, switches & settlement banks and even in some cases all of the above.Despite the loud cries of disruption, the payment system would not work if we don’t collaborate with banks to make sure the system is safe and secure for everyone. More importantly, these collaboration are driven by staff mandated to do by the banks and the switches otherwise nothing would move forward. Even PayStack has partners with banks and there are staff in this banks working with them. It doesn’t mean they are founders of Fintech firms in the traditional sense and we put these collaborations at risk with such brash assumptions.

We need applaud these digital banking gurus who actually help create the platform for firms like paystack , fluttterwave etc to build niche solutions on.

Paystack & Flutterwave is going do an AMA to fully address the realities and perception of payments collaborations across the continent. Key thing to remember is we operate in five countries today, South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Ghana and the US (and soon the UK & EU) and across these markets we offer our payment processing technology platform to a variety of clients (Banks, payment service providers & global corporates ) solving different problems in payments.

I would like to end on this note : Payments is collaboration. We collaborate together so payments work for people. We are not white labels of each other or the banks we work with. We work together. We all have so much work to do to ensure we can connect our country to the digital economy and each player needs to understand and play their role right if this will work.

That is all I have to say about this.

[kananga]

@Uduak

So Paystack, are you a reseller or a processor?Or you just want us to respect the part that you are reselling from multiple processors(MIGS/Interswitch etc)?It is either you are a reseller or a processor/acquirer.

I really wonder why all the obfuscation. As if being a reseller is a bad thing.

Western Union started as a wagon company. Wells Fargo was a delivery service. Our people refuse to humbly accept what they are and grow from there.

You have your place in the payment supply chain, be proud of it.

[Seguleh1st]

I like how you pick and choose what to respond to, anything that looks like it remotely address your very nebulous point that somehow still stands and refuses to fall, you just dodge it, awon eyan artful dodger. kare, carry on. I don’t know what you do but I hope its something really easy, so that when someone else calls you a ‘effing’ reseller, you will be proud and wear it like a badge.

[Engrtitus]

Ezra: Why is Flutterwave being portrayed as a superset of Paystack.

Iyin: You see, my brother, it’s not like that o

[kananga]

@Seguleh1st

I don’t know what you do but I hope its something really easy, so that when someone else calls you a ‘effing’ reseller, you will be proud and wear it like a badge.

If that’s what I am, I will!

Walmart is a reseller. I don’t see them losing sleep at night because they are what they are.

You’d have to be a narcissist, with some serious psychological issues and an over inflated sense of importance, to insist on being portrayed as what you are not.

[philiprohv]

@Uduak

1. Processors - Also known as Acquirers, processors are distinguished by their ability to actually process a transaction. To be a processor, the technical capability to receive transaction data and then communicate with the appropriate financial institutions to approve or decline transactions. Processors must also be able to settle completed transactions through financial institutions in order to deposit funds into the merchant’s bank account.

This definition isn’t exactly correct as far as our local financial industry is concerned. The ideal case is for banks to acquire AND process their transactions. But this is not the case today. To the best of my knowledge, only 1 bank in Nigeria does in-house processing. In payment-speak, this bank is an “Acquirer-Processor”. Other banks are just Acquirers. These banks outsource their processing to the likes of Interswitch (which i have a personal preference for) and EMP, who are known as “Processors”. The reasons behind why this is the case is can take a full book to explain.

As @asemota, @niyi and @iaboyeji have said, payments is about collaboration…and redundancy. It would be impossible to explain the intricate workings of payment systems to the “uninitiated” in a few forum replies or even blog posts.

[ukay]

@fish

As an Access Bank shareholder I am interested in knowing how the bank is remunerated for this exclusive access or if they have indeed paid for a stake

Isn’t such information supposed to be contained in the annual reports & related filings?

[series]

It seems Paystack has been removed from the flutterwave site.

Yesterday

Today

Here’s the page right now

Can someone explain this? @xolubi @iaboyeji @fish @kananga

[StephenAfamO]

Well, seems right.

If they complained that the narrative is confusing, and they no longer work together (at least for now), it makes sense

[kananga]

@series

It seems Paystack has been removed from the flutterwave site.

Can someone explain this?

Allow me to try:

You see, we are in the era of safe spaces, snowflakes, and delicate feelings. PayStack’s feelings has been hurt, and Flutterwave being a good friend has obliged their request to remove the Paystack logo from their website (it’s the least they can do for them now).

Interestingly enough, this little vexation will spur PayStack to go on and do great things, maybe even aspire to move up the value chain and compete directly with FlutterWave if they can (this will be good for the consumer, obviously. Competition is always a good thing).

All this talk of “let’s all hold hands, sing kumbaya and not offend each other” is for people who live in Disneyland. In the real world, companies compete. Company A will take Company B’s market share if it can, in fact they have a duty to do so, they owe it to their shareholders to do so. And as a customer, if FlutterWave offers a competing product against PayStack, I will be the first to move to FlutterWave, after all, I’m interested in what’s best for my business, not the delicate feelings of some snowflake.

Considering their position in the payment supply chain, I’d wager that Flutterwave (should they choose to offer a consumer product) will be cheaper, and provide more flexibility than whatever PayStack has to offer from their own lower/disadvantaged position in the same supply chain.

Now, If I were PayStack and I had a sense that this was inevitable (That my “supplier” will enter my retail space), what would I do? Well, first I’d diversify my options in terms of the “supplier” I use, maybe I can come up with an excuse and say I need to add one or two more “suppliers” for “redundancy”. Then, after a few months, I’d abandon FlutterWave all together, and pitch my tent elsewhere. All very sensible if you ask me.

So bollocks to niceties and tip toeing. Let the gloves come off, I hope FlutterWave enter this space with even better options and lower pricing. Competition is good for the public.

[jekayode]

@series

It seems Paystack has been removed from the flutterwave site.

No.

@kananga

PayStack’s feelings has been hurt, and Flutterwave being a good friend has obliged their request to remove the Paystack logo from their website (it’s the least they can do for them now).

The logo is still there.

[kananga]

@jekayode

The logo is still there.

It’s been removed. If you still see it then you need to clear your cache, or wait a few hours then try again.

[Possicon]

Baaaaaddo! Eru iku to n fi Java panu!

[seye]

But what the heck are you on about??? Just LET THIS GO!

[kananga]

@seye

But what the heck are you on about??? Just LET THIS GO!

What the heck are you on about?

Am I the one who started this thread? Someone started a topic and put me in the centre of it, essentially getting his fans to fire salvos at me. And you are telling me that I am the one that wont let it go? Are you hard of comprehension or something?

PayStack should have let it go, and not start another thread to stoke the flame and continue the back and forth. Almost every post I have made here has been a response to one person or the other (including you right now) throwing darts at me. So you let it go, so the thread can die a natural death.