Is Paystack essentially a reseller of Flutterwave's excellent payment tech?

[xolubi]

I created this thread to address a misconception about Paystack being peddled on a different thread. I addressed this but it appears more light is still needed, based on the questions still being asked by our dear friend, @kananga

Basically, it started with this.

@kananga

@niyi

My apologies for going offtopic but why do you think PayStack is a dependent of Flutterwave?

I don’t think they are. They are!

Paystack is essentially a “reseller” of FlutterWave’s excellent payment tech. The main product they “resell” is the FlutterWave Pay Button. FlutterWave’s API allows you to do some wonderful things, that’s why some of the best services use them - e.g. Uber, KongaPay, PayWithCapture, etc.

Think of it this way. FlutterWave is manufacturer of the product, Paystack is the retailer, and there are other retailers, you can become a retailer too if you are interested in fintech.

To which I responded and said the following.

@xolubi

I speak as CTO of Paystack and I can assure you there is no evidence of this in our codebase. There is no evidence of same in either Uber’s or KongaPay’s codebase either.

Uber processes transactions directly through the MasterCard Internet Gateway Service with Access Bank as the acquiring bank.

KongaPay is a whole different ball game altogether, working with multiple banks and NIBSS to enable them directly debit bank accounts. You can confirm this with any developer on the KongaPay team. It is worthy of note that as at when the product launched, Flutterwave was not a thing.

That said, Paystack started off as Uber is - processing transactions via MiGS with Access Bank as our acquiring bank. It was why we could authorize and charge cards without requiring PINs or One Time Passwords. It was also the reason we could not process Verve cards at launch because those are local to Nigeria. Today, we work with multiple banks as acquirers, primarily GTB and Zenith, and directly with Interswitch to support PIN/Token authentication for MasterCard and Verve cards. For cards that have already been authorized once, we simply pass them off to MiGS for subsequent charges (recurring billing, or when a charge is sent to an existing customer’s card).

We also have relationships in place with eTranzact and NIBSS to make things like direct bank debits and automated transfers possible. As a player in the financial services space, we are also directly regulated by CBN as a Payment Service Provider and I can assure you that hasn’t been a small feat in terms of requirements - 100 million naira in share capital paid for, rate regulation, amongst other things. So no, you cannot just “become a retailer too if you are interested in fintech”.

My colleague, @FatherMerry also jumped in to add that we used Flutterwave for a brief period of time as part of the numerous processors we processed transactions through largely as part of a banking relationship. That is correct. Above, I mentioned that at launch, we worked with Access Bank as our acquiring bank while processing directly through Mastercard. Over time, we built relationships with multiple banks to achieve this and largely with more flexibility.

I cannot say for certain when Flutterwave became a thing, but due to their deep relationship with Access Bank (more on this later), transactions we passed through our Access Bank integration went through Flutterwave, starting late May, 2016. I would love to go into the intricacies of this, but I reckon that isn’t why we are here. Over time, and for multiple reasons, this stopped being the case.

Paystack’s core offering has not changed since we launched, and our mission is to simplify the process of accepting payments online while equipping our customers with the best tools to make that possible. What is not true however, and does disservice to our business (and everyone who has worked to make it into what it is today) is to conclude that we are “powered by” Flutterwave or rely on their tech somehow. I have heard this in so many different variations including that Paystack is a Flutterwave white label - something I immediately took to Twitter to address after hearing it from two people in one night.

https://twitter.com/0x/status/803136031562182657

I understand that there may still be questions asked and I am very happy to answer them here instead.

@kananga Based on the distribution of our transactions, your adamant stance would be better channeled into saying we run on Interswitch technology. At least, that will be closer to the truth.

[timigod]

What I would like is for @iaboyeji to come here, like @xolubi has done, to say what’s going on.

It seems very unlikely that he hasn’t heard what’s being said, but it’s a bit odd that he hasn’t decried it (in any capacity), to my knowledge.

I mean, that would be the right thing to do.

[kananga]

@xolubi

To be fair. I did apologise for my choice of words.

But I stand by my general point.

[Nosaaaa]

ah, sir, you can’t back down now o. you, too, have to bring your own

[kananga]

@Nosaaaa

ah, sir, you can’t back down now o. you, too, have to bring your own

Me? Why would I back down?

[spokentwice]

When you run a consumer facing tech product like payment, you need to work with other partners to make it happen. Other major key stakebolders are Banks, switching, gateways etc.

Interswitch used to have the monopoly but, now we have other players.

It is not a bad thing to resell FlutterWave, but you can’t be in the game if you don’t have other integration partners and recognition by CBN.

By the way, your users don’t care what happens in between as long as you deliver value efficiently.

[Nosaaaa]

I think the real issue is that a lot of people (i was) are under the impression that Paystack is to Flutterwave as Tech Cabal is to Wordpress. If that’s not the case, it’s a bit somehow to the Paystack guys

[timigod]

Just waiting for @iaboyeji to come clear the air once and for all. It’s kuku better to hear it from the horse’s mouth.

[ekemini]

Me waiting for Flutterwave to show up

[xolubi]

@Dapo

Access Bank decided to re-organize/re-package PayWithCapture into two biz entities
The card payment acceptance API became an independent entity (sort of) - Flutterwave. Led by Iyin.

This here is exactly what I intended to say when I said “more on this later” above when referring to Flutterwave’s relationship with Access Bank, but I wasn’t sure it was in my place to say that - considering Iyin never brought this up in his Twitter sermons. However, I’m glad you did.

A bulk of current Flutterwave staff were former PayWithCapture staff - they are here on Radar, and can confirm this. And if the published APIs are paid attention to, Flutterwave (at least as at launch), was PayWithCapture APIs with a new name.

Nobody wondered what the ever present “pwc” in the API endpoints meant?

[akindolu]

I hate to feel like the Paystack guys right now. It’s hard to build anything that just works, and that’s usually tens of components in the air, even at the early stage.

Using Flutterwave or not, it’s wrong to communicate or perpetuate the idea that reduces the work of another company to mere “retailer” or nonsense or technology reseller. Generally, that’s nonsense and major BS.

At Revova, we use Flutterwave as our ACH provider, but I’ll be mad if anyone calls us a “technology reseller”. That’ll be insulting, and very unfortunate to the work of my friends knowing ACH is just a piece of many things we need.

I have personally heard variations of this, and even though I know better because I’m somewhat close to one of the companies, it gets me the wrong way. The other day at Stripe HQ, a friend was so confident it was the case. I tried correcting him but hey, I was not even up for argument at the time. This story has persisted for so long, and it is starting to seem like deliberate obfuscation of a major story.

If we must say this as it is, this reduces the value of Paystack, and even from an investment perspective. Who wants to invest in a technology reseller? No company feeds another company, if it’s just of a case of customer or partner relationship.

Personally, I think it’ll be important the guys at Flutterwave address this, and re-tell their narrative unless they enjoy how this story benefits them as the Lord and personal savior storyline of all fintech companies like @kananga is insisting. Or their customers.

One day, someone will come here to say Uber is a reseller of Flutterwave’s technology. I don’t know if it is ignorance or it’s just a case of how one company has delivered its proposition or tell it.

As far as I’m concerned, everyone is doing very important work. No one/company is greater or lesser than the other even if company A needs company B services for a piece of what it needs done. Every company is free to communicate/pursue their mission as they want, but it doesn’t necessarily mean yours is grander than mine or be communicated as that, to be very frank in the scheme of things, but I digress.

Point is, Braintree is not greater than Airbnb because Airbnb processes all their bookings through them if I’m not mistaken now. These things are even quite orthogonal which makes this generally sad. I must just stop here.

[87_chuks]

@kananga

To be fair. I did apologise for my choice of words.

But I stand by my general point.

You are smarter than you’re letting off here @kananga

All you had was a screenshot to support a claim, now you (we all) have very detailed clarification, insider information on the matter.

What you owe yourself is an ‘aha’ / ‘oh right’ moment. I had one.

I dont know what general point you’re still standing on. You’ve been corrected enlightened. Be glad for it. I am.

[SkweiRd]

A great man once said:

“There is a way things are, and a way they appear to be. The former is not the more important of the two.”

[tsmalz]

@kananga learn and move on… @xolubi now we all knows better.

[iaboyeji]

This thread was just brought to my attention. I apologize for the delay with responding. As you know it is Christmas commerce season and we have been busy making sure our clients can process transactions safely and reliably.

Let me address the primary question : Is Paystack essentially a reseller of Flutterwave technology. No.

We have the same relationship with Paystack as we have had with all our other clients like Simple Pay, Amplified Pay and Revova. They route transactions through us whenever expedient just like they do with Interswitch.

Our public communications has been crisp and clear with respect to where we play in the ecosystem. We enable innovators building payment products to do so quickly, safely and efficiently while we handle the more complex aspects of the technology for financial institutions . We do this across multiple channels beyond card payments (which is a very small piece of our business) and we do this across several African countries seamlessly in partnership with Pan African financial institutions.

For me the feedback is we could be a lot clearer about communicating what we do. We have committed to fixing this in the new year. We apologize for any offense taken and any damage caused. It was not intended.

However, one has to wonder especially given this thread if this is a marketing attempt to start a fight that doesn’t really exist. If it is - it’s not a good strategy and it is destroying our ecosystem. Anyone worth their salt in this space knows we do different things so why the hostility?

[princehumphrey]

The key thing is ‘Storytelling’. Tell the world your story the way you want it to be written otherwise others will tell the world your story the way you can’t retell it.

It is interesting because many would have probably seen the story develop from ten thousand miles away. This is a lesson for all hardworking folks in the ecosystem. It’s more than having a brilliant product. It’s way beyond that in these days of mobile reporters - social media generation/culture. It is very easy to have the wrong narrative, just very easy.

[ofilispeaks]

@iaboyeji

However, one has to wonder especially given this thread if this is a marketing attempt to start a fight that doesn’t really exist.

Me fa, I really don’t even understand why Paystack is responding with long essay and thesis. We use them on our platform at okadabooks.com and its been an epic lifesaving experience of mass financial benefit!

“The Lion does not need to roar at all animals, its reputation can roar for it.”

[iaboyeji]

Exacty! We have so much work to do to fix payments across Africa. We don’t have time for this

[Nosaaaa]

@iaboyeji

For me the feedback is we could be a lot clearer about communicating what we do. We have committed to fixing this in the new year. We apologize for any offense taken and any damage caused. It was not intended.

This was necessary

@iaboyeji

However, one has to wonder especially given this thread if this is a marketing attempt to start a fight that doesn’t really exist.

This, on the other hand, wasn’t. You make it seem like they’ve made these things up in their heads when it’s simply a response to a common assumption. I mean, the guy in the Hotels thread pretty much prompted this.

Paystack is essentially a “reseller” of FlutterWave’s excellent payment tech. The main product they “resell” is the FlutterWave Pay Button.

[xolubi]

@iaboyeji

However, one has to wonder especially given this thread if this is a marketing attempt to start a fight that doesn’t really exist. If it is - it’s not a good strategy and it is destroying our ecosystem. Anyone worth their salt in this space knows we do different things so why the hostility?

You don’t have to be dismissive, Iyin. Since your narrative for Flutterwave started mid year, we did our best to stay out of the way, regardless of how much it hurt us to watch people get the wrong impression of our relationship. I was very clear at the beginning of this thread that it was to address misconceptions raised by a user on a different thread, one in which I was not interested in derailing further.

This was a message I sent to someone earlier when the reseller thing came up on the previous thread.

I personally do not enjoy that I had to do this - I mentioned this to you the last time you were at my apartment, but it had to be done. I am sure you agree with me on this, and would do the same if Flutterwave was caught up in some false narrative.

That said, thank you for your input. We can all rest easy now.